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Post by jerryspaniel on Jul 16, 2015 22:11:02 GMT
Apologies if this has come up in any other discussion - its been a while since I was on the site!
An issue that has been bugging me for a while and has recently caused some controversy in Sussex, is where the keeper takes a ball that been left by the batsman, He then holds the ball in his glove close to the stumps waiting to see if the batsman steps out of his ground. In the game at the weekend the batsman went off to do some gardening and was stumped. The batting side said this was against the spirit of the game, the fielding side said he shouldn't have left his ground (as reported by the local paper). The umpires gave the batsman out.
My point is that its nonsensical to allow the keeper to stand there forever and at some point the ball must be dead. The batsman has completed his shot (or non shot) and after a period of time, to all intents and purposes most of the players would regard the ball as dead. But how long should that be? We cant keep calling dead ball after (say) every 5 seconds.
So I was wondering if other umpires have a policy on this?
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Post by tippex2 on Jul 17, 2015 10:43:28 GMT
I wouldn't have a (notional) clock running beyond which I would consider the ball to be dead. If a batsman is teetering on the edge of losing his balance, then I think the keeper's entitled to wait until the batsman regains his footing, whether this take 5 seconds or longer. If the keeper's still got the ball, and the batsman wants to go for a stroll, there doesn't need to be a formal call of dead ball - if the batsman asks the umpire non-verbally and receives a nod, that should be plenty.
One thing i wouldn't allow is for the 'keeper to mime throwing the ball to another fielder - that would confirm that the ball was dead as far as I was concerned.
With regard to the original post (and obviously without commenting on the incident in question specifically) it's worth remembering that, even if an action were against the spirit of the game, that doesn't mean that a dismissal based on that actino is invalid. The umpires can report breaches of the Spirit to higher authority but, on the field, they have to give decisions in accordance with the Laws.
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Post by missingleg on Jul 18, 2015 8:28:37 GMT
www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nmez-IV83KIDo you mean in this kind of instance? I would suggest that these situations should be out as it is clear that the fielding side hasn't considered the ball to be dead. I had a situation two years ago where the batsman was batting out of his crease. The ball was missed and went through to the keeper who threw the ball to first slip who threw down the stumps. My colleague at the bowlers end however called over when the keeper threw the ball to slip so there was some controversy.
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Post by gooders on Jul 20, 2015 13:29:00 GMT
www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nmez-IV83KIDo you mean in this kind of instance? I would suggest that these situations should be out as it is clear that the fielding side hasn't considered the ball to be dead. I had a situation two years ago where the batsman was batting out of his crease. The ball was missed and went through to the keeper who threw the ball to first slip who threw down the stumps. My colleague at the bowlers end however called over when the keeper threw the ball to slip so there was some controversy. I would be interested to know how the fielding side thought the batsman was out in the situation in your game. Quite clearly the batsman would not appear to be taking a run from your description, and if your colleague called over, then the ball is dead and no further action can be considered until the bowler commences his run-up for the next delivery. Umpire's decision is final. There can be no controversy. |
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Post by missingleg on Jul 20, 2015 21:16:56 GMT
Hi Gooders, it was a tactic by the fielding side after slip had a word with the wk (pointing to the crease before the ball was delivered). The ball was immediately flicked up to first slip who over arm threw down the wicket. My colleague said he was overhasty with the call of over as you should leave a couple of seconds to see if the fielding side want to attempt a run out. This was all done in the blink of an eye.
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Post by gooders on Jul 22, 2015 9:38:10 GMT
Being a bit pedantic here perhaps, but surely in order to be run out, the batsman has to be attempting a run. In which case it should have been an attempted stumping, which can only be effected by the wicket keeper. Which all goes to show that umpires are capable of ignoring petty attempts to bend the laws and maintain their integrity ensuring the Spirit of Cricket is adhered to.
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Post by Charltump on Jul 22, 2015 9:57:39 GMT
No, Gooders, not pedantic just wrong in Law. Law 38.1 (b) .....whether or not a run is being attempted...
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Post by Charltump on Jul 22, 2015 9:58:42 GMT
No, Gooders, not pedantic just wrong in Law. Law 38.1 (b) .....whether or not a run is being attempted...
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Post by gooders on Jul 22, 2015 21:20:24 GMT
No, Gooders, not pedantic just wrong in Law. Law 38.1 (b) .....whether or not a run is being attempted... It's just as well I don't stand any more then isn't it?  |
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Post by jaybee on Jul 23, 2015 6:15:46 GMT
Missingleg's example is a good one but easier to spot than most such situations(as long as you're watching!). A year or two ago my colleague gave a batsman out when the wicket was thrown down by the keeper. There had been an unsuccessful appeal for caught behind and the keeper stood with arm raised ready to throw as soon as the batsman moved. This didn't go down well with the batsman's partner but I thought the decision was right as there was enough to indicate to the umpire that the fielding side hadn't regarded the ball as dead. It can be a tough call but at the end of the day it comes down to "in the opinion of the umpire". I'll leave it to others as to whether passing the ball to slip was sharp practice and/or self-defeating in the case mentioned. If it happened immediately why shouldn't the keeper break the wicket? |
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Post by duncanfrancis on Jul 24, 2015 12:42:20 GMT
www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nmez-IV83KIDo you mean in this kind of instance? I would suggest that these situations should be out as it is clear that the fielding side hasn't considered the ball to be dead. I had a situation two years ago where the batsman was batting out of his crease. The ball was missed and went through to the keeper who threw the ball to first slip who threw down the stumps. My colleague at the bowlers end however called over when the keeper threw the ball to slip so there was some controversy. Did you give the batsman out. If you did after over had been called that is incorrect in law, as soon as over is called the ball is dead ! |
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andyw
Junior Contributor
Posts: 4 
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Post by andyw on Jul 27, 2015 14:08:35 GMT
On Saturday there was an appeal for a catch behind but the keeper threw the ball against the wicket as batsman was out his ground. I wasn't sure the player had edged it. Result - given out stumped.
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Post by Robbo on Jul 27, 2015 16:00:50 GMT
As an aside, one of the earlier posts by Gooders said that as the umpire had called Over the ball was dead - no it's not! The call of Over does not make the ball dead.
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Post by tippex2 on Jul 28, 2015 12:47:33 GMT
The call of over does not, of itself, make the ball dead, but (Law 22.4 & 23.3) the call is not made until the ball is considered dead through another cause. Therefore, if the call has been made, the batsman is entitled to think that the ball is dead (at least in the umpire's opinion, which is all that counts) and leave his ground for gardening / chat to partner etc.
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Post by duncanfrancis on Jul 29, 2015 15:43:17 GMT
www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nmez-IV83KIDo you mean in this kind of instance? I would suggest that these situations should be out as it is clear that the fielding side hasn't considered the ball to be dead. I had a situation two years ago where the batsman was batting out of his crease. The ball was missed and went through to the keeper who threw the ball to first slip who threw down the stumps. My colleague at the bowlers end however called over when the keeper threw the ball to slip so there was some controversy. Did you give the batsman out. If you did after over had been called that is incorrect in law, as soon as over is called the ball is dead ! I do apologise, after reading Tom Smith's it clearly states that a call of over does not make the ball dead. Always learning ! |
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