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Post by Acumen on Mar 30, 2014 17:37:37 GMT
The following question raised some debate at a recent meeting and I think it worth posting here, especially with Shane Warne bowling.
The ball goes well down the leg side, beyond the reach of any normal stroke by the striker, pitching in a rough patch where the Return Crease meets the Popping crease.
It turns very sharply and hits the wicket.
Are you brave enough to call "Wide Ball"?
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Post by igmc on Mar 31, 2014 9:11:24 GMT
And before anyone says this is hypothetical - it happened to me when batting. The ball pitched off the cut strip level with my feet, hit a stone hidden in the longer grass off the square and came back almost at right angles to bowl me.
It did not occur to anyone, including me and the umpire, that it was anything but out.
Regarding the original question, I think I'd give it out. As for my own instance, I think I would call dead ball since the delivery was interfered with by something that should not have been there.
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Post by missingleg on Mar 31, 2014 11:05:56 GMT
I don't understand why this wouldn't be out...besides if the ball hits the wicket then why would that be judged to have passed so wide of the striker that he couldn't hit it by means of a normal cricket stroke?
This reminds me of a league game last year when a full ball bowled down the leg side pitched on the edge of a foothole and 'turned' sharply to clip the leg stump and bowl the batsman! Poor guy.
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Post by tippex2 on Mar 31, 2014 14:37:48 GMT
I agree that I wouldn't call this wide - nothing to do with "bravery" or not, but just the fact that, if the ball's come in enough to hit the stumps, it's close enough that the batsman could play a leg-glance / sweep type shot at it from a normal guard position.
With regard to IGMC's situation, I'm not sure where in the Laws the umpire can "hang his hat" on a not out / dead ball decision because the ball hit a stone. Would a deflection off a stone in the outfield that takes the ball away from a fielder be reason enough to cancel a boundary??
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Post by John on Mar 31, 2014 20:00:54 GMT
The following question raised some debate at a recent meeting and I think it worth posting here, especially with Shane Warne bowling. The ball goes well down the leg side, beyond the reach of any normal stroke by the striker, pitching in a rough patch where the Return Crease meets the Popping crease. It turns very sharply and hits the wicket. Are you brave enough to call "Wide Ball"? Since the call of "Wide Ball" should not be made until the ball has passed the wicket then bravery does not come into - it is a simple matter of the umpire and everyone else knowing the Law
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Post by John on Mar 31, 2014 22:42:38 GMT
And before anyone says this is hypothetical - it happened to me when batting. The ball pitched off the cut strip level with my feet, hit a stone hidden in the longer grass off the square and came back almost at right angles to bowl me. It did not occur to anyone, including me and the umpire, that it was anything but out. Regarding the original question, I think I'd give it out. As for my own instance, I think I would call dead ball since the delivery was interfered with by something that should not have been there. If it pitched off the cut strip, in other words off the pitch, then it was a no ball which should have been called as soon as the ball pitched.
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Post by tippex2 on Apr 1, 2014 8:31:53 GMT
If it pitched off the cut strip, in other words off the pitch, then it was a no ball which should have been called as soon as the ball pitched. Not under the Laws. I know this is a common rule in matches played on an artificial pitch, but there's no provision in the Laws for a ball to be called no-ball just because it's misdirected.
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Post by missingleg on Apr 1, 2014 9:18:22 GMT
I can't find that in the laws either - if the bowler's ball accidentally loops in the air and pitches say at around silly point and bounces once, then the striker hits it, you wouldn't call a no-ball.
If it's bowled very wide and hits a close fielder though, you would call no-ball and then immediately dead ball according to the MCC
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Post by Acumen on Apr 2, 2014 14:15:43 GMT
I did specifically say that the ball pitched on the junction of the return crease and the popping crease. This is within the 10' mown pitch and impossible to play a shot from the normal stance - quite difficult even if you move substantially - certainly beyond range of a simple sweep shot for the average batsman.
It clearly falls under the definition of a Wide Ball.
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Post by tippex2 on Apr 3, 2014 14:08:40 GMT
I would argue that, even if the ball is out of reach at the time it pitches, at some point within the 5 ft 7.5 inch (approx) journey between pitching and hitting (presumably) the leg stump, there is a point at which it comes within reach for a normal stroke.
In any case, this ignores the fact that there's no time at which the ball could be called wide. John was quite right earlier in the thread - the call can't be made until after the ball has passed the wicket, and in this case the ball hasn't passed the wicket - it's hit it.
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Post by igmc on Apr 3, 2014 18:58:45 GMT
So, for me, the situation seems to be: 1. Just because it pitches off the cut strip, it is not a No Ball by law. 2. The Wide law says 'passes wide of the striker where he is and which also would have passed wide of him standing in a normal guard position'. Nothing to do with passing the stumps. 3. But, realistically, how would you explain to the fielding side your call of Wide to a ball that has bowled the batsman? Which was the original question. I'd struggle with that. 4. In my particular instance, the keeper and I were equally perplexed as to what had happened. We dug around the area where the ball pitched and finally found the stone. 5. Is a (passive) stone interfering with the path of the ball any different from an (active) bird flying into a delivery? If so, why?
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Post by whakidywhak on Apr 18, 2014 4:19:29 GMT
This is an interesting one. igmc's comments are valid. However, pitching wide down the leg side, batsman in normal guard position, how can the batsman play a ball which is BEHIND (and past) him travelling towards the stumps by means of a normal cricket stroke?
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Post by Rob on Jun 7, 2014 8:18:16 GMT
For me this is clearly a wide. The ball passed batsman out of reach (if a T20 then anything down leg would be called a wide). A normal cricket shot cannot be played to a ball behind the batsman!!
Gents - apply the laws. Simply enough.
Change the scenario slightly. A very high full toss loops over the bat's waist and clips the top of the bails. Are you telling me you wouldn't apply the play regs if they said every ball over waist height was a no ball?
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Post by Acumen on Jun 7, 2014 10:39:43 GMT
Is anyone sufficiently good at their dynamics to be able to calculate whether it is possible for a ball (other than slow) to hit the top of the stumps after passing above waist height? I do vaguely remember something about S equals U squared plus V squared divided by T - and other equations
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Post by gooders on Jun 7, 2014 13:42:34 GMT
I suppose a bowler 25 feet tall might be able to do it at pace, but there aren't too many of them about round our area.
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