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Post by Acumen on Aug 30, 2013 13:49:54 GMT
Peter Danks reports: "The laws state that umpires should call and signal wide ball and no ball and when the ball is dead repeat the signal to the score. I find that only about 1 in 100 umpires actually do this. Why cannot they not comply with the laws. This is from the ICC Elite (!!!!) panel down to the local league umpires. " I thoroughly agree BUT I was lucky enough to catch one being done properly when video assessing one of our League umpires (who has given me permission to publish) - about 30 seconds into www.a-b.co.uk/examples/betley1622IB.aviIf I get time, I will cut the first ball out. |
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Post by missingleg on Aug 30, 2013 16:18:30 GMT
If you say 'wide' or 'wide ball' loud enough so everyone can hear then there's no need to signal it twice in my opinion.
It's not exactly to the book but there are plenty of instances where we don't do things to the book (for example friendly warnings before going down the formal route, not reprimanding players for bowling a ball into the ground to warm up etc).
I, like most, choose not to signal wide to the players as I don't think it helps or hinders the game either way and I've never had any complaints. I certainly have never been marked down for it in an assessment. I would say it's up to the individual.
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Post by gooders on Aug 30, 2013 18:24:15 GMT
Your point is valid missingleg, but I have stood games where, at the striker's end, I have not heard the call of "wide" or "no-ball" and had to query the number of deliveries to be then told that such & such delivery was wide or a no-ball.
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Post by wisden17 on Aug 30, 2013 19:13:02 GMT
I fail to understand why all umpires are happy to do an initial signal for no ball but yet so many seem not for wides. If nothing else it helps the scorers a lot as they know a wide signal is coming when the ball is dead, whereas calls are very often not heard beyond the boundary.
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Post by whakidywhak on Aug 31, 2013 7:41:55 GMT
Absolutely agreed. Always call and signal to the players immediately on No ball and after the ball has passed the batsman for a Wide. It is important to let the players know the state of play as soon as possible as this can affect their decisions especially in whether to take runs/byes and whether to appeal, etc. The signal may be cut short if the batsmen run though! Repeat to scorers when ball is Dead. I am overseas umpiring at ICC Associate level and am surprised to hear that this is not common practice in the UK. It certainly is in this part of the world.
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Post by jaybee on Aug 31, 2013 9:53:16 GMT
A couple of recent instances: I called no ball from striker's end (keeper encroaching). My colleague didn't repeat the signal but the batsman (& captain as it happened) asked me to make sure the scorers had picked it up - I had to repeat from square leg and they had missed it! A week later I called (this time 3rd fielder behind square) and my colleague actually repeated the signal once the ball was dead. This is the first time I can recall it happening. While missingleg may be right to say that it's superfluous to repeat in most cases it's particularly important for calls from the striker's end and it can save discrepancies with the score later if it's done at all times. I have to ask how, if you only call and signal while the ball's still in play, you can keep watching the action while ensuring that the scorer acknowledges the signal. |
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Post by stevepitts on Aug 31, 2013 10:19:15 GMT
It is fairly obvious from the answers above that there is little consistency in this area. For myself I find it a real problem when my colleague only signals and doesn't call because unless they repeat the signal once the ball is dead (and maybe not even then) I may well not notice that the ball isn't to count in the over. I am always loud with my calls, but will try to make a signal immediately too (after all the keeper or slip fielders might be hard of hearing) although that might be brief if I then have to change position because of the action that follows. I would never consider signalling to the scorers whilst the ball was in play - for reasons of self-preservation if nothing else  |
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Post by sillypoint on Sept 2, 2013 13:13:18 GMT
Two points need to be added to this discussion:
1. Though hinted at in a couple of the above contributions, it is worth emphasising that Law 3.14(a)(ii) stipulates that Dead ball, Wide and No ball signals SHALL be REPEATED to the scorers WHEN THE BALL IS DEAD, and that this is to be done by the BOWLER'S END UMPIRE. Obviously Wide will also have been originally called and signalled by the bowler's end umpire, but the initial call of the other two could have been from the striker's end. It is vital field technique to be aware of your colleague's calls and signals, but also to make sure he/she is aware of yours. And of course a signal cannot be REPEATED if it was not made in the first place. The initial call and signal is for the benefit of the players. The repeated signal is purely for the scorers.
2. The Laws are on the side of stevepitts when he says: "I would never consider signalling to the scorers whilst the ball was in play", but the most important reason is not self-preservation, but that that is what is required of us. And it makes perfect sense; while the ball is in play your attention must be on the field. Only after the ball becomes dead should you deal with any scorer signals required.
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Post by gooders on Sept 2, 2013 13:40:06 GMT
Two points need to be added to this discussion: 1. Though hinted at in a couple of the above contributions, it is worth emphasising that Law 3.14(a)(ii) stipulates that Dead ball, Wide and No ball signals SHALL be REPEATED to the scorers WHEN THE BALL IS DEAD, and that this is to be done by the BOWLER'S END UMPIRE. . Having just consulted the laws, I cannot find where it states that it should be done by the bowler's end umpire. |
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Post by missingleg on Sept 2, 2013 13:53:13 GMT
I signal an initial wide if the ball is fumbled by the keeper and more runs ensue, then repeat. But if it goes straight into the gloves in my opinion it doesn't benefit the game to signal, then turn to signal again; I just turn and signal.
I know plenty of very good umpires who do it and plenty who don't. I don't think the players care either way (as long as the wide call is an uncontroversial one!).
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Post by stevepitts on Sept 2, 2013 21:26:28 GMT
Having just consulted the laws, I cannot find where it states that it should be done by the bowler's end umpire. sillypoint gave you the exact reference in the part of his post that you quoted - viz 3.14.a.ii, which says "When the ball is dead, the bowler’s end umpire shall repeat the signals above, with the exception of the signal for Out, to the scorers" [my emphasis] the most important reason is not self-preservation, but that that is what is required of us It was a facetious comment, hence the smiley, but I would still put self-preservation above doing the right thing - you may value your health and well-being differently  |
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Post by sillypoint on Sept 15, 2013 3:26:33 GMT
missingleg wrote: "But if it goes straight into the gloves in my opinion it doesn't benefit the game to signal, then turn to signal again; I just turn and signal."
That's OK, provided you are satisfied that the ball is dead, but your really must be sure. It would look horrible if, for example, the wicketkeeper saw the non striker out of his ground and threw the ball to that (ie. your) end as you were signalling to the scorers.
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Post by missingleg on Sept 15, 2013 9:51:42 GMT
I signal until the ball is dead that would be a basic error!
Ball passes striker > shout wide > ball lands in gloves > ball finally settles > turn and signal
That said, I went to a county championship game last week where the umpires were signalling byes & leg-byes as early as when the throw was coming in...maybe it's because they think it's so rare for circumstances like the one you've mentioned to happen as to ignore it.
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gully
Regular Contributor
Posts: 14
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Post by gully on Sept 16, 2013 11:02:41 GMT
missingleg wrote: "But if it goes straight into the gloves in my opinion it doesn't benefit the game to signal, then turn to signal again; I just turn and signal." That's OK, provided you are satisfied that the ball is dead, but your really must be sure. It would look horrible if, for example, the wicketkeeper saw the non striker out of his ground and threw the ball to that (ie. your) end as you were signalling to the scorers. Quite; I made that mistake once, and learned from it, signalling wide to the scorers ( directly behind me at the bowlers end) I missed the bal hittiting a helmet,when the keeper dropped the ball I heard the batsman say an emphatic no and thought I was safe so i now signal immediately keep my eyes on the ball then repeat when ball is dead to make sure scorers have picked it up |
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