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Post by nompere on Aug 10, 2006 6:32:05 GMT
At the Bowler's End, I have some difficulty in judging the height especially when the striker has moved forward. There are suggestions that Striker's End umpire could help.
What is your experience? Have you found a discrete way of communicating?
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Post by wisden17 on Aug 10, 2006 18:12:31 GMT
Well the best way to judge the height, when at square-leg or the bowler's end is to use marks in the background (e.g. lines on a sightscreen) as an indication of where the height of the batsman's waist is, for example.
Whenever I umpire I always mention signalling to a colleague from square-leg if it is a no-ball or not. I know some umpires like to indicate where the ball passes the batsman when at square leg, but I simply ask my colleagues to give a little no-ball signal.
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orhoj
New Member
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Post by orhoj on Aug 11, 2006 20:08:27 GMT
I Denmark where I live the tournament regulations allow the striker's end umpire to also call no balls in case of beamers or bouncers. The strikers end umpire is often in a better position to see the height of the ball hence this regulation.
Sometimes when I umpire a match I talk with my collegue prior to the match and discuss if bowler's end umpire shall be the only one calling the no balls but always with some kind of signal from the striker's end umpire to help adjudging the height of the delivery.
My "discrete" signal when standing at striker's end is to point to the ground if I believe the delivery to be fair and otherwise indicate the height with my hand.
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Post by nompere on Aug 12, 2006 15:40:01 GMT
I guess your discrete "fair" signal is illustrated at www.acumenbooks.co.uk/signals/nothigh.jpgKeith Healey suggests that above waist height should be signalled as www.acumenbooks.co.uk/signals/high.jpg but was less clear about above shoulder height. On reflection, I think this one signal could be used to indicate every type of "unfair" delivery. I did try the little no ball signal suggested by wisden17 - www.acumenbooks.co.uk/signals/mininoball.jpg but feel that this risks confusion with scorers and players may see this as usurping the Bowler's End authority. Someone has also suggested pointing upwards - www.acumenbooks.co.uk/signals/ambiguous.jpg but this could be interpreted as one left or even out if the straiker has actually edged it to the keeper! What does anyone else think? My original question came about because strikers do come down the pitch and intercept the ball higher than it would have been had they stayed in their crease. This is very difficult to judge at Bowlers End. PS: If you wish to send your own pictures, I will use these rather than all of my ugly mug!
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Post by johnfgolding on Aug 14, 2006 17:23:03 GMT
I totally agree with the approach of Wisden 17, even to the extent of a call.
We are dealing with DANGEROUS and unfair play. We need to be mindful, particularly in the lower leagues of village cricket, that many batsman cannot deal with a beamer (over waist) whether from a fast or a slow bowler, and act accordingly. Their saftey is in our hands.
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Post by wisden17 on Aug 14, 2006 22:37:23 GMT
I should point out that when I umpire I do always point out that when at square leg I only offer a guide. Indeed when I have been umpiring I have disregarded a colleague's discrete no ball signal and adjudged the delivery to be fair (although when doing so I give me colleague a little thumbs up signal, whilst making eye-contact, to let him know that I have seen his signal, but don't agree with it).
In the end umpires have to work together as a team, and so I will always make eye contact with my colleague on every delivery, and when I am at the bowler's end I do alwasy look to my colleague if there is a ball close to ebing a beamer, or bouncers over head height etc.
Just one other thing to add, did any of you see the 20/20 finals in the UK, I saw the highligths and there were a large number (including the last ball of the final) of balls which were beamers but were not called.
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Post by mrsinghIndia on Aug 16, 2006 18:10:43 GMT
Judging a high ball is difficult at the best of times, both from the bowler's end and from square-leg, because of various reasons such as forward movement of the striker, his bending in taking strike or stretching or whatever. There is no set reference point. I appreciate the need for team work in such situations. more so because of the difficulties presented. I do think the umpire at the striker's end, while being always ready to help his colleague in making the judgement, should come forth with the 'nod' or 'shake of head' only when asked. I don't like to see an umpire at square-leg making, sometimes repititive, signals indicating that the ball was too high only to see the bowler's end umpire ignore it because he is of different view. There is, after all, the question of jurisdiction. I also think a 'nod' is quite enough to confirm the question. In my view, a separate signal is not quite required.
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Post by Acumen on Aug 20, 2006 9:29:37 GMT
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Post by wisden17 on Aug 21, 2006 14:01:33 GMT
These signals are what I absolutely hate!
I find that if you are at the bowler's end and you want to have an indication from your partner about where the ball passed the batsman you want a quick and easily understood signal.
The problem using the singals of Keith are that they can be easily confused (does he mean it is above waist height, below etc.)
This is why I always ask my collegaues to just give a little no ball signal (as I've said above), as it makes life so much more easy. If I disagree with the signal, I'll give a little thumbs up to my collegaue to let him know that I've seen his signal.
And if my collegaue looks over to me when I'm at square-leg, and I don't think it is above waist height (etc.) then I give a small shake of the head.
The key is that all signals have to be quick, and easily understood. And that is why I use what I do, and do not use any of Keith's (although I should point out, that I did use signals exactly like Keith's when I started umpiring).
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Post by welder on Aug 23, 2006 8:29:01 GMT
If a batsmen is batting outside his crease and then steps further forward to intercept the ball which is at that point above the waist how can even the strikers end umpire determine where it would have been when he was stood upright at the crease. In a recent incident this senario happened and I as strikers end umpire did not call the no ball - the striker was given out caught and he stood his ground waiting for the no ball to be called. I determined that he was so far forward when he hit the ball so it may or may not have been above his waist at the crease - but it didnt get there. My colleague at the bowlers end looked to me for input and I gestured that it was below waist just to give him some guidance this was technically incorrect and maybe we should have consulted at the time. How do fellow umpires judge this situation when batsmen are advancing well down the pitch chasing runs?
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Post by wisden17 on Aug 23, 2006 11:44:32 GMT
You need to make a judgement of where the height level would have been for the batsman standing upright at his crease. Then on top of that you have to predict whether the ball would have passed over that height. Its not neccessarily an easy thing to do, but this is why help from the strikers end is essential.
I have had numerous situations like the one you describe, and batsmen simply do not seem to understand the law (what a surprise!).
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kharadi
Junior Contributor
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Post by kharadi on Oct 20, 2006 14:37:29 GMT
Re:Help with Beamers and Bouncers Previously, before the introduction of the Laws of Cricket 2000, it was the duty of the Umpire at the striker`s end to call and signal "No Ball" in case of Beamers and Bouncers. This has changed since 2000, and to call and signal a No Ball in such cases is now the duty of the Bowler`s End umpire. However he could still get assistance from his stiker`s end colleague signalling him the height at which the ball passed the striker who is standing upright at the crease. So far there should not be any ambiguity in a decision for a No Ball. But, when a batsman moves a cosiderable distance forward in front of his crease to strike a full pitch delivery, only the umpire at striker`s end is in the situation to adjudicate a No Ball considering the trajectory and the speed of the delivery and should signal his decision to his colleague at the Bowler`s end as quickly as possible.
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fearsm
Junior Contributor
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Post by fearsm on Aug 8, 2007 17:24:14 GMT
We have a medium pacer who hit the top of middle stump (28 inches high) and was called for an above waist-height beamer !! The batsman was of average adult height (5'8"-ish) and had advanced down the wicket.
Even if he were a dwarf, it sounds rediculous that you can hit the stumps on the full yet get called for this - the purpose of the law is to prevent dangeous (or unfair) bowling - but if you hit the top of middle should this really be called dangerous or unfair? (despite the relative height of the batter)?
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Post by johnfgolding on Aug 12, 2007 9:39:01 GMT
Law 42.6.b.i is quite specific. The bowlers end Umpire would need to consider the speed of the ball and if NOT ba slow one did it pass the striker above waist height when standing UPRIGHT at the crease. It should not be judged when the ball passes the batsman. This is a situation where the bowlers end umpire should work with the strikers end umpire. The strikers end umpire will be well placed to judge the batsman's position and the height of the ball.
I always try to find a reference (no matter what end) when a new batsman comes in to judge the height of his waist. Maybe a mark on the sight screen or a line on a fence etc. See Wisden17 posting 10-8-06
It is important that the two umpires agree how they will communicate in various situation with each other. Too often in this situation the strikers end umpire will signal or worse still call and signal no ball. In my experience a simple positioning of the hand above the waist is sufficient. I try to avoid anything that looks like a no ball signal.
It is possible, although unlikely, for the ball to hit the wicket in such an instance. I have seen it happen.
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Post by Acumen on May 4, 2009 16:18:57 GMT
Have we reached any consensus on the best signals that Striker's End Umpire can use to assist his colleague discretely but distinctly without frightening the batsman with pointing fingers? I have posted some more examples at www.acumenbooks.co.uk/signalsIf you can supply the missing photos or other suggestions, please email office@acumenbooks.co.uk Thanks
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