peterg
Regular Contributor
Posts: 11
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Post by peterg on May 17, 2009 13:55:23 GMT
Umpired a league match in Cornwall two weekends ago, standing alone. I was with the away team. I noted during the away team innings that the home skipper and his wicket-keeper disputed an lbw appeal that was turned down. I was at square leg and the batter was a full stride beyond the batting crease when the ball hit him on the half-volley. There was no way the bowler's umpire (an away team member) could have given it out, yet the skipper and keeper were tut-tutting and shaking their head in mock amazement. I was then at the bowler's end for the home team innings. The away quickie hit the home skipper on the back foot in front of middle. The ball had jagged back from around off stump but I was still certain it would hit middle and leg so gave it. I got the full treatment - pause, shaking head, loooking back the square leg umpire (who happened to be the aforesaid keeper). At the end of the match the skipper did not shake hands with me or even thank me for standing, as did none of the home team, and there was no drink for me in the bar either. The away team won easily, by the way. How do fellow umpires handle this kind of thing? I know we are supposed to be strong but I find this kind of behaviour depressing. I have sometimes had a hard time from players when I have made mistakes during innings in the past, but almost always we have spoken afterwards and I have apologised if necessary. Likewise players who have contested decisions have apologised too. But this was no mistake and I was sure of my ground. What attitude do fellow umps take? How do we stay strong in face of this kind of behaviour?
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Post by missingleg on May 17, 2009 19:20:58 GMT
That's absolutely disgusting behaviour from that batsman and his team. I would be inclined to talk to the league secretary about it.
I get very upset when players do this kind of thing, especially when you're probably right but you're seen to be wrong. I don't feel pressured, just angry and annoyed.
Last year I gave an lbw to a spinner hitting a batsman on the front foot. His captain (in the pavilion at the time) was angry with me after the match. He came into the changing room and told me that it's poor umpiring to give front-foot lbws - I was amazed. He asked why I gave that lbw and not a 'similar' one for his team's spinner. I said they were 2 different balls, and that the first one wouldn't have hit the stumps.
It's understandable (but not excusable) when batsmen are disappointed with you for giving a catch when he didn't hit it, but with lbw, you're not dealing with facts. How dare they say your opinion was wrong when opinions are opinions?
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Post by tippexii on May 17, 2009 21:08:37 GMT
It's difficult I know, but I think we have to accept tht players view the game through (at least) rose-tinted glasses - I've yet to give a batsman out LBW, and have him come up to me in the bar and congratulate me on the fine decision....
If the players' behaviour on the field crossed the line into dissent, then that's obviously a matter you can take up through the relevant disciplinary process. Failing that, with regard to the impoliteness after the game, there's not a lot that can be done - perhaps mke yourself unavailable for te equivalet game next year?
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Post by swerveman on May 17, 2009 21:28:14 GMT
... there's not a lot that can be done - perhaps make yourself unavailable for the equivalent game next year? I don't think that's necessary. Whenever I have had, shall we say, a difference of opinion, there hasn't been an inkling in the next game that it ever happened, even just a couple of weeks later, never mind a whole season.
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Post by johnfgolding on May 18, 2009 8:37:57 GMT
... there's not a lot that can be done - perhaps make yourself unavailable for the equivalent game next year? I don't think that's necessary. Whenever I have had, shall we say, a difference of opinion, there hasn't been an inkling in the next game that it ever happened, even just a couple of weeks later, never mind a whole season. In my opinion there has been sound advice offered. You will never be right in everyone's eyes. For instance I turned down a very "loud" appeal for lbw on Saturday when the ball hit the pad on the full in front of the stumps but in my opinion would have gone on to miss leg stump by a good 6 inches plus. The fielding side all to a man were convinced if the ball hit the pads on the full in front of the stumps that was out. They were grumpy for a little while but soon forgot about it - I just carried on as though nothing happened. There is obviously the line between dissent and dissapointment and only you can judge and deal with that (with your colleague) on the field of play and after the match. Just remember as Swerveman pointed out, they usually have very short memories. It is difficult but just rise above it, do not get too involved unless you see a situation developing and themn only with your colleague.
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Post by jaybee on May 18, 2009 19:04:56 GMT
Umpired ... standing alone ... with the away team. ... home skipper and his wicket-keeper disputed an lbw appeal [when] I was at square leg.... ... The away quickie hit the home skipper on the back foot in front ... I was still certain it would hit middle and leg so gave it. I got the full treatment [and after] the match the skipper did not shake hands with me or even thank me for standing.... How do fellow umpires handle this kind of thing? I know we are supposed to be strong but I find this kind of behaviour depressing. I have sometimes had a hard time from players when I have made mistakes during innings in the past, but almost always we have spoken afterwards and I have apologised if necessary. ... How do we stay strong in face of this kind of behaviour? Of course a thick skin helps but this needs more than that. Our League - with whom I agree (on this occasion but not often) told clubs and umpires pre-season at the behest of the ECBThe behaviour in this case is not acceptable and if they can't discuss it reasonably with you in the bar afterwards they deserve to be reported - but to do that you have to have acted on the field. If it was as bad as it sounds the captain should have been asked to clean up their act on the field thus putting him on the spot for later transgressions. As sole umpire I think you'd be quite justified in stepping in to support the stand-in. We all make the odd mistake and we all get people who don't like the decisions. If it's the odd comment about a white stick, guide dog or needing hearing aid batteries I think you have to show that you can laugh about it and it's good to reply in kind - but there are limits and this seems to be beyond them. There is another aspect where my League has a rule which is worth following (I must try to stop agreeing with them!): where there is only one umpire he (or she) should stand at the bowler's end throughout - this does give some consistency of decisions and takes some of the heat out of LBW decisions by a player-umpire.
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Post by missingleg on Aug 13, 2009 21:48:55 GMT
A question on the lbw to the full-toss.
I know that the laws say you don't take into consideration any spin that may have occurred after pitching, but what about bounce? Can you turn down an appeal for lbw when the ball hits the batsman's foot on the full because you think the ball could have gone over the stumps? I can't find anything in Tom Smith's that deals with this.
What if the batsman charges five yards down the pitch and the ball hits him on the knee-roll on the full and you're sure the ball wouldn't have missed off or leg stump...but there could still be doubts on height if the ball had pitched 3 yards down the pitch and 'kept low' or got 'extra bounce'.
Surely you don't know how high the ball would have bounced after pitching, as it didn't pitch, making an lbw decision almost impossible to make?
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Post by gooders on Aug 14, 2009 14:11:22 GMT
The law is quite specific insofar as it removes consideration of what the ball may or may not have done after pitching. I take this to include bounce as well as lateral movement, and as such If I consider that the ball would continue along the line to hit the stumps then the batsman is out, on appeal.
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Post by wisden17 on Aug 14, 2009 16:32:33 GMT
If you look in the MCC Open Learning Manual it has this to say:
[If the ball doesn't pitch] He has only to continue this path in his mind’s eye, to assess whether the ball would have hit the striker’s wicket.He does not have to worry about turning and rising on pitching, even if it is possible that the ball might have pitched before reaching the wicket. He must, however, take account of the distance between the striker and his wicket to allow sufficiently for the ball’s subsequent sideways travel. He must also remember that if the ball is on a curved path it is to be considered as continuing on that curved path.
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Post by missingleg on Aug 14, 2009 23:03:42 GMT
Thank you that's a great deal of help.
All that needs to be considered is whether the line of the ball would have taken it passed the line off the off or leg leg stump, and if it wouldn't, it's out. Height and possible bounce over the stumps is not considered.
It's clear now.
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