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Post by sillypoint on Mar 15, 2013 11:18:48 GMT
As always, umpiring must be grounded in the Laws. And as gooders has pointed out more than once, the Laws state clearly that Bowled takes precedence over all other forms of dismissal (Law 30.2); Caught takes precedence over all forms of dismissal other that Bowled (Law 32.2). Beyond those two there is no precedence stated, therefore the order in which things happened must be the logic since Law 23.1.a.iii states that the ball becomes dead when a batsman is dismissed; if a batsman is dismissed by an action which takes place before a second action which would also lead to his dismissal, the second action is not relevant since he is by then out and the ball is thus dead. Keep in mind, too, that a single appeal "covers all ways of being out" (Law 27.4).
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Post by topumpire1 on Jul 3, 2013 9:55:40 GMT
I agree, though you must remember ONLY to answer the question(s) to which the appeal relates. We umpires can ONLY give decisions if an appeal is made to us! (do you all agree) Thus: A Bowler bowls a fair ball, which he thinks hit the pad (only or first) & appeals for a LBW, the ball loops high into the air & is eventually caught by a fielder. The APPEAL has been made is for the LBW, but no second one occurs AFTER the ball is caught, therefore the appeal is for the LBW only (no one can appeal in advance of action). IF AFTER the ball is caught, and an appeal (or a second one) is made the appeal for all forms dismissal, from that ball: The ball, hit pad only But it would have hit wicket (i.e. met all criteria)- OUT LBW! ball hits pad (FIRST) & bat, the striker is still out LBW if all the other criteria for LBW are met, if they are not, then he may be out caught, even if the ball hit the pad before the bat. This scenario of course CAN be further clouded if the wicket keeper on catching the ball, sees the strikers foot lift & quickly whips off the bails, THEN appeals (or appeals for a third time). Strikers end umpire will come into play IF the ball hit pad only, but ball was not meeting the criteria for LBW and bowlers end umpire does not believe ball hit bat at any time.
If a batsman is given out in this scenario, it may not be obvious to the batsman or scorer, the method of dismissal, It is up to the umpires (who are responsible for the score) to ensure the mode of dismissal is correctly recorded!
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Post by gooders on Jul 3, 2013 13:45:53 GMT
Here we go again...................... By the way topumpire1, you are wrong. Read the rest of the thread and Tom Smiths might be a good read for you too.
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Post by sillypoint on Jul 3, 2013 23:18:33 GMT
I have to take issue with lancia85's comment above: "Since comments here agree that as there is no precedence mentioned in the Laws"; and also the nonsense about which umpire puts his finger up first, which is irrelevant.
The Laws are clear: 1. bowled takes precedence over all else (Law 30.2); 2. caught takes precedence over everything except bowled (Law 32.2); 3. everything else is in the order in which it happens, since the ball becomes dead when a batsman is dismissed, and "will be deemed to be dead from the instant of the incident causing the dismissal" (Law 23.1.a.iii).
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