jrbp
Junior Contributor
Posts: 5
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Post by jrbp on Nov 18, 2007 23:11:57 GMT
Someone accusing umpire 50 of disseminating propaganda against ECB OA, surely not. His position is open, balanced and unbiased as shown by the quotes below from some of his previous posts.
“I too am not seeking to enter the ACU&S/ECB OA debate”
“I hope that the arguments, both for and against [ECB ACO], can be put without too much animosity”
“I shall NOT be joining any organisation under the umbrella of the ECB.”
a..”line of 'dirty tricks' employed by ECB/ECB OA to undermine the ACU&S “
“trying to undermine the ACU&S (as it [ECB] appears to me to have been doing for the past three years or so)?”
“Presumably the reason that ECB OA have cancelled their regional meetings is that ECB OA have run out of cash” NOTE It was actually in light of the ACU&S decision to hold a ballot on ECB ACO.
“I'm really beginning to wonder whether the split between ACU&S and ICUS was actually deliberately engineered by the ECB”
“Joining the ECB OA is a pointless exercise.”
“ECB OA which, with less than 1000 members, is not financially viable.”
Umpire 50 has also clearly explained the problems that ACU&S have had over the past few years – it’s all down to being unlucky with the Chairmen it elects:
“a few financial problems - caused by a Chairman [BSK we assume?] who was good is his vision of the future but appalling at any form of financial control.”
Followed by
“a dictatorial new Chairman, Geoff Lowden,”
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mmm
Junior Contributor
Posts: 8
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Post by mmm on Nov 19, 2007 12:46:12 GMT
Cavebubonem -I'm not quite sure what you mean by 'clout'? Governmental?, no thats ECB's job. Law making?, thats MCC's, but ACU&S has always had a respected hand in it. Financial?, no, thats why we need to go down the Next Steps route. Representing its members interests? Certainly, but not on its own, thats why we employ Legal advice, if necessary even against the Regulators (ECB) - which wouldn't be possible in ECB ACO. I agree that our Management has lost a lot of credibility, but you must admit that it has been under the severest of attacks in the last few years & this year has demotivated members by running services down & proposing to hand us over to our attacker. Our HT Magazine is under a new Editor & he can only put in what (now demotivated) members include - amateurish maybe, but what has ECBOA done? I am certain that our best future lies with ACU&S Ltd, as proposed by 'Next Steps'. If we have had the courage & belief to stay firm, then we will be in a stronger position. I am sure that ECB will respect us the more & will sensibly do business with us, without the unwanted conflict that they have provoked (it keeps their careerists employed) up to now.
As you can see young Umpires, I am as biased as Umpire 50, because of ECB deeds as opposed to all their famous words.
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Post by Acumen on Nov 19, 2007 12:48:45 GMT
Please try to keep to factual arguments and not personal attacks.
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Post by nompere on Nov 20, 2007 13:02:54 GMT
I have watched several postings and am concerned that umpires and scorers are getting bogged down in past history. It is more important to study the present plans and look to the future.
ECB and ACU&S must work closely together for the good of the game BUT I have serious concerns about abolishing ACU&S prematurely:
(1) we hear that ECBACO will not have accredited instructors before January 2008 and that the course and exam materials have not yet been fully prepared.
(2) ECB do not appear to have amended any of their proposals in the light of General Council’s comments on 25th July - certainly members are now being asked to vote on the original proposals, especially:
- a) ECBACO seem to be making no grading distinction between fully qualified (GL4) members and those partly through the process (GL5 & GL6).
- b) ECB are paying scant attention to non English & Welsh members - Europe seemed to be an afterthought and Asia was nowhere! I understand that around 1,000 ACU&S members will be affected by that proposal, or rather, lack of proposal.
- c) many County Boards and ACOs are still in a state of flux and consequently many members cannot participate in elections
- d) "independent" board members appear to be a closed shop rather than open to a vote by the electorate as a whole
- e) greater emphasis is being placed on subjective judgment of field performance, which ACU&S has previously found to be inconsistent.
(3) ACU&S members will not be given an easy transfer method – they will have to make a new application.
- a) This may be a simple returning a form but I fear that many will not do so, resulting in a serious leakage of membership.
- b) This method clearly indicates that it is NOT a merger or even a take-over, simpler provisions for which are made within Data Protection regulations.
(4) Regional representation seems even more remote under ECBACO than under ACU&S. The meeting for the Midlands was scheduled for Mansfield, which is some way from centre of East Midlands and very remote from West Midlands.
(5) I cannot remember what has been proposed about an Annual Meeting open to all members.
Concerns have been expressed elsewhere about the appointment of Mike Gatting in view of his past history and also his many other responsibilities - pink balls etc.
In most other professions, formal training and qualification is conducted by bodies independent of the employer.
I believe these, and possibly other issues, need to be properly addressed before ACU&S members should agree to move forward with assurance.
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Post by nompere on Nov 28, 2007 8:09:44 GMT
Two more crucial issues.
The present ECBACO proposals do not set any requirements for any of the Board Directors to have any qualifications or experience as umpires or scorers.
There is no certainty that the bi-monthly Hows That? would be continued - indeed the proposed constitution makes no mention of an editor.
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Post by Number 6 on Dec 5, 2007 15:20:05 GMT
So what now then?
Vote yes or no???
Opinions please.
Pete
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mmm
Junior Contributor
Posts: 8
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Post by mmm on Dec 6, 2007 11:24:08 GMT
The decision must be your's now Peter, all I can add to what has been said is that if ACU&S goes now, it'll be gone forever & ECB will be a monolith. With reference to Anotouter's question, on ACU&S thread, he will be affected because if ECB control everything then, they will start making regulations to govern Umpires in even lower League divisions.
Our future really is in our hands at this moment in time, if you vote yes, you will not get another chance to have much of a say in anything that affects our conditions.
& the Best of British to us...
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Post by Septic on Dec 6, 2007 11:38:33 GMT
Why does ACU&S not affiliate to MCC or ICC rather than succumb to ECB?
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Post by fatpunter on Dec 7, 2007 20:45:39 GMT
The only way forward is one organisation. The ECB have the clout and the money, ACU have the members and, it would seem, never the twain shall meet.
I would stake a huge amount of money that 60% of ACU will not vote for unification.
I really don't know where we go from here. I wish I had the answer.
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mmm
Junior Contributor
Posts: 8
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Post by mmm on Dec 8, 2007 13:21:12 GMT
We will go where we want to, if we still have the Democracy - if ECB win, we will go where they want us to go.
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Post by Acumen on Dec 14, 2007 8:17:59 GMT
Murray Roberston has just posted a report from Peter Hughes of New South Wales giving several good reasons as to why ACU&S members should vote NO - read it at www.acus.org.uk/membersarea.asp
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